overreaction to what may be a patina of people that believe in -- in other words i don't think abc and nbc and cbs are activist organizations for liberal causes. i think fox looks at those organizations and they're sort of an autoimmune disease against that. >> i see you make more than a billion dollars a year. >> what were these television talkers trying to accomplish? joining me here, are you going go out on a limb and declare a winner? >> this sounds like a copout but i think they both came out ahead. they both, think, very much held their own and proved that they're very good at this. >> this was very heavily promoted. >> yes. >> did it live up to the hype? when they were standing up at the podiums, it felt a little strange to me. i didn't think either one of them held up like they do in their program sthoos they like each other, so they're not out to ruin each other's reputation, but the reality is it's ral rather fairly substantive might be the wrong word but serious. >> if you came in looking for a lot of laughs, you might -- >> they were a little funny, stewart adjusting the height of his